Day 15 of 30 Days of Guardian: Villain whose redemption you liked (a.k.a. the Ye Zun rant post)

[cyberbrain]

Ever since I wrote something embarrassingly unkinky for the kinkmeme my thoughts have been stuck on Ye Zun. I really like him. He's a great villain. I wish he'd gotten more screen time. I wish Merit Brush Guy had been written better and his arc–over faster, so there would be more time for Ye Zun. I really love him. He's so interesting.

I need to sort through my thoughts on him before I can continue my life writing. Fuck, I've been trying to write this post for a week.


I'll be honest, I don't know where to start... and this post might end-up being rambly. I'm sorry.

My biggest issue with Ye Zun is that I don't know how to treat him. He's done some really terrible shit–I can't just let him run around happy with no repercussions.

Except.

Ye Zun has been through a fuckton of shit. From being a sickly child left alone with only a slightly older child to fend for themselves in a harsh world to being lied to and abused to being imprisoned for millennia. Not being cared for. Not being given love.

Is it fair to expect, to demand, him to be better?

I think–for the purpose of effective character design and engaging storytelling–No.

I like Ye Zun because he is imperfect. He is deeply flawed. Perhaps even calling him broken would be an understatement.

But I want to fix him. Fandom is my happy place. I love writing because it lets me do anything. But this is where the problem starts with Ye Zun–I have no flippin' idea what to do with him.

My instinct is to write him happy, to put him in a space full of love, to make sure the only pain he feels is from how hard he's grinning in nothing but joy. And, sure, I can put him in the happy place, but that wouldn't scratch my itch, which is to fix things effectively for him and those around him (meaning Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan).

Does Ye Zun deserve happiness?

...I can't bring myself to say no.

This is where this post's title comes into play–redemption. It wasn't much of a redemption, honestly; more of an explanation. But it served its purpose. Taking the episode 40 infodump into account, Ye Zun had his reasons and they weren't entirely illogical.

But did he go too far? Probably. Does that matter? I'm not sure.

Does he deserve forgiveness and peace after an exceptionally long life of suffering? ...I think he does. I like angst, sure, but more than that, it turns out, I like comfort. I want to fix things, to mend the broken ones, to give love to the characters that were given nowhere near enough.

Giving love to Ye Zun... I don't know how to do that. Normally, I would do it through shipping; and I want to do that with Ye Zun too... but there's no one for me to reliably ship him with. Shen Wei is the first choice, obviously, but–not even touching on any potential "But that's incest," wank–that breaks weilan and weilan very much must stay intact or I stop having fun. Zhao Yunlan is the second choice, and what I said about Shen Wei applies here too. Everyone else in the show–we weren't told enough about for me to feel ready to say, "That's the one for Ye Zun!" And then there is another option: add Ye Zun to weilan.

Sigh. I'm not against the idea, I even like it (in theory). But so far, I haven't been able to come up with a way to make the dynamic work. Not in a post-canon Everyone lives, Nobody dies AU, at least. Of course, it doesn't need to be a romantic or sexual relationship but the same problems still stand. 

How do I even begin fixing that? How do I ease the hurt he's caused Zhao Yunlan? How do I repair the trust that Shen Wei has undoubtedly lost in him? What about Ye Zun's trust in Shen Wei and humanity in general? And what of the world's people's feelings? What if they learned their heroes were involved with their enemy?

I would have liked a better "redemption" sequence for Ye Zun. A milder ending would have made this all so much easier... But I can't say with certainty if I would have preferred a milder, better, ending. After all, it's because of all this hurt, that I'm so engaged.

What is the proper way to treat the man who wanted to end the world because he was lied to?

There's the theory of Ye Zun possibly being mind-controlled by the rebel leader as that was his power according to Fu You (episode 34, start from 34:50). And that paired with plain psychological manipulation and abuse (also physical abuse) is a perfect recipe for tragedy.

So what do I do with Ye Zun?...

Let's examine a different, less severe, case first, though. What about Bucky Barnes from Captain America?

In Civil War, he laments, "I don't know if I'm worth all this, Steve."
"What you did all those years... It wasn't you. You didn't have a choice," Steve Rogers, pure boy with a heart of the purest gold, tells him.
And the heart-wrenching reply is: "I know. But I did it."

So what can be said of Ye Zun then?

Even if I absolve him of his crimes by saying it's not his fault, what is left? How would he feel? How would he think? Learning he'd been lied to seemed to go over well, but what about after that? What about those ten thousand years of being stuck in a pillar alone? Wouldn't his thoughts cycle habitually on his pain?

I feel an extensive answer is needed for all these questions and I'm so mad at myself for not being able to provide it.

Is it possible for Ye Zun to even be good?

Here's the thing–maybe there's still some hope in humanity or childish naivete left in me but, god-fucking-damn it–I want to believe there is good in everyone. Ye Zun included. So I want to fix this; to create happiness where there was none.

...So. Villain whose redemption you liked. Ye Zun's is not very good, definitely could have been handled better. And yet, it works and prompts so much thoughts and ideas, I can't help but be drawn to it and like it.

Comments

[extrapenguin]

Yes, that's the thing, he's done enough harm and can't be allowed to go free. For me, "the powers that be" are basically Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan because no one else is strong enough to stand against Ye Zun. So, the way I see it, they would keep him close to watch him and in the meantime provide support and be an example of a healthy life. While doing that he can go to therapy.
Oh, huh! Shen Wei's in charge of Dixing and doesn't report to anyone, yeah, but Zhao Yunlan reports to Minister Gao and those higher up the chain, so while his opinion would weigh heavily, any solution would need to also go past Minister Gao and Zhao Xinci. But yes, therapy is necessary.

I think in episode 38 would be best–after weilan run from the Palace and Shen Wei falls over and they have their talk, instead of Shen Wei staying to fight and be dramatic, he does what they agreed on with Zhao Yunlan–goes to the portal; they regroup in Haixing, hide, rest, heal, eventually a final fight where no one dies. That point in time would let canon events happen while conveniently stopping before Ye Zun has done anything that would be hard to forgive.
I don't think I have come across this point yet! Ooh. Ye Zun's still murdered a bunch of people, though I guess the one thing Zhao Yunlan can never forgive is Shen Wei voring.

Or somewhen in YOHE Zhao Yunlan can maybe do something to help save Ye Zun.
I like this! I've toyed with an idea where the Hallows drop Zhao Yunlan onto bb Ye Zun in YOHE, but haven't gone anywhere with. Hmm...

Ty for the recs! I really enjoyed ratbones' fic, so I'm anticipating the rest! (And I'm glad Overwritable worked for you. <3) I'm also gathering a reclist to go with my Ye Zun character focus post on sid_guardian; I counted and realized I'd written one quarter of the Ye Zun without weilan fic on AO3...

[cyberbrain]

Zhao Yunlan reports to Minister Gao and those higher up the chain, so while his opinion would weigh heavily, any solution would need to also go past Minister Gao and Zhao Xinci
Ah, that's right! This is a very good point.
I admit I didn't consider the people above Zhao Yunlan in government because I have a (too) strong belief in his willingness to disobey. He's already shown us that if he disagrees with what he's being told to do, he'll go against it. Granted, I'm mostly basing this belief on Zhao Yunlan's relationship with his father and his failing to listen to Shen Wei but... it's how I read his character–once he's decided on doing something, there's no way to stop him.

Ye Zun's still murdered a bunch of people, though I guess the one thing Zhao Yunlan can never forgive is Shen Wei voring.
Pretty much, yeah. It's a way to keep things serious and heavy but depending on how far the writer wants to go and fix, maybe it's possible to bring some of the murdered ones back. Shen Wei managed it, maybe Ye Zun can decide to spit them out?

I counted and realized I'd written one quarter of the Ye Zun without weilan fic on AO3
That's really awe-inspiring (☆▽☆)

[extrapenguin]

He's already shown us that if he disagrees with what he's being told to do, he'll go against it. Granted, I'm mostly basing this belief on Zhao Yunlan's relationship with his father and his failing to listen to Shen Wei but... it's how I read his character–once he's decided on doing something, there's no way to stop him.
Oh, definitely! I just think Ye Zun confinement would be high-enough profile that he'd be under a lot of pressure from above, ever after ~episode 36. He'd still use the interpretation of the decree he considers most just, mind, but he might not have much room to maneuver.

maybe it's possible to bring some of the murdered ones back. Shen Wei managed it, maybe Ye Zun can decide to spit them out?
I think so! Maybe not Wang Zheng and Sang Zan, as they're energy beings, but anyone else, certainly.

That's really awe-inspiring (☆▽☆)
Well, yes, but also makes putting up a reclist that is not a pile of self-recs very hard...